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Re: Special Teams Matter

By CrazySexyBeast
10/01/2019 10:51 pm
TarquinTheDark wrote:
I do think changing the default personnel in a couple of positions would make everyone happier ...

Once deep into it, yarp, 100% agree. The statics on the edges were NOTHING in relation to players placed there via auto or manual depth charts. MFN is way off here in the defaults. ST players need a total overhaul - positions not addressed in weights before.
Whole nother ball game for the edges and the center and interior, aye? Middle wings - kinda still exploring. You are getting the blocks- so you have that also. :P
perhaps personel (not personal) list of pos?
EDIT: This was an area Setherick kinda ignored - totally ok - but needs to be addressed moving forward for GM dev/retention.
Last edited at 10/01/2019 10:52 pm

Re: Special Teams Matter

By TarquinTheDark
10/01/2019 11:02 pm
CrazySexyBeast wrote:
perhaps personel (not personal) list of pos?


I like it. I still plan on doing write-ups for each ST play. But if someone <hint, nudge> wants to compile a taxonomy of ST skill sets from those write-ups ... I think other owners and jdb would find that very helpful.

The biggest positional vacancy is ST coach. **** Vermeil and Marv Levy both started out as ST coaches under George Allen, quoted in the OP.

The second biggest vacancy I've found is for blockers (both run and pass) with the speed and agility of receivers. It's what I try to train and build around, and not just on ST.
Last edited at 10/01/2019 11:24 pm

Re: Special Teams Matter

By slowtospeak
10/02/2019 12:43 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:
I may be in the minority on this, but I think anybody caught abusing the flawed punt system to generate blocks should be kicked out of any custom league. It isn't because you're smarter or work harder. It's because the play design doesn't work.


A guy who hands off to his receivers on running plays thinks that blocked punts are a cheap gimmick? File that one under "the pot calling the kettle black."

Re: Special Teams Matter

By Infinity on Trial
10/02/2019 6:38 pm
slowtospeak wrote:
Infinity on Trial wrote:
I may be in the minority on this, but I think anybody caught abusing the flawed punt system to generate blocks should be kicked out of any custom league. It isn't because you're smarter or work harder. It's because the play design doesn't work.


A guy who hands off to his receivers on running plays thinks that blocked punts are a cheap gimmick? File that one under "the pot calling the kettle black."


It's true, I sometimes take advantage of the weight loss of WRs. Setting aside the part where no shortage of NFL teams now hand off to WRs from time to time, the question is whether you really want me to block a couple of punts per game, as well.

The part that Tarq leaves out of his manual (a good update to the one setherick wrote several years ago) is no degree of personnel selection will consistently prevent blocked punts from someone who is exploiting the fallacy of current AI.

We can all turn this game into a good-old-fashioned punt-blocking clusterf*** if you really want, but if you think breaking things will inspire JDB to fix them ... you haven't been playing very long.

We all draw lines in difference places, and maybe handing off to a RB or playing a CB at SS is where the line is for you. For me, I have no respect for someone who wants to take advantage of an AI loophole/problem to block punts, and I support custom league commissioners who utilize their power to discourage such behavior.

Re: Special Teams Matter

By slowtospeak
10/02/2019 6:47 pm
You don't need my permission to take advantage of the game. Block away. Playing players out of position is part of the game, just like blocked punts are. I may be in the minority on this, but I think it is more than a little hypocritical that some people who take advantage of the game engine look down their noses at other people who take advantage of the game engine. Nobody is holier-than-thou, we're all trying to win.

Re: Special Teams Matter

By Smirt211
10/02/2019 6:47 pm
Here's the problem with the punt blocking. One game plan can be beating another game plan, clear cut and you have no right of winning but you do because you disrupt the code with a punt block return for a TD or two. You could be rushing 30 times for 21 yards and be throwing for 100 yards and 3 picks in a game....the punt block obtains an immediate score when you could not move the ball and disrupts the sim engine.

Non-punter at the position I say BLOCK AWAY! Go for it! Or someone with a really poor punt timing on their punter. Stand out stuff. Ok, you put effort in and reaped benefits. But two GMs going all-out in deep playoff games the punt block should never ever come into play.



Re: Special Teams Matter

By TarquinTheDark
10/02/2019 6:47 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:
no degree of personnel selection will consistently prevent blocked punts from someone who is exploiting the fallacy of current AI.


I left it out because I disagree. Personnel selection to prevent punt blocks, the reason I wrote-up Punts first. It won't stop every single one ever, and that's a good thing.

I'd love to go into a first season and get no punt blocks because everyone knows what to do. I'd love more if the AI put the right players in place.

Re: Special Teams Matter

By TarquinTheDark
10/02/2019 6:55 pm
Smirt211 wrote:
Here's the problem with the punt blocking. One game plan can be beating another game plan, clear cut and you have no right of winning but you do because you disrupt the code with a punt block return for a TD or two. You could be rushing 30 times for 21 yards and be throwing for 100 yards and 3 picks in a game....the punt block obtains an immediate score when you could not move the ball and disrupts the sim engine.

Non-punter at the position I say BLOCK AWAY! Go for it! Or someone with a really poor punt timing on their punter. Stand out stuff. Ok, you put effort in and reaped benefits. But two GMs going all-out in deep playoff games the punt block should never ever come into play.


What I read you saying is that ST is boring, it is supposed to be boring, it is not part of your game plan, and shouldn't be part of anyone else's. It should be safe to ignore it. Maybe that's just my interpretation.

I build teams with characteristics that happen to improve ST play. Considering where I usually start from, it takes time and effort. Eventually, I tend to have a lot of players available that are good at ST. So, it is part of my game plan. I'm not giving away any part of the game.
Last edited at 10/02/2019 7:02 pm

Re: Special Teams Matter

By Smirt211
10/02/2019 6:57 pm
*rolls eyes* I'm off to watch AEW.

I pay attention and do over-rides for my special teams. No, what I'm saying is if one game plan is beating another one clearly it is disrespectful for a punt block to come in and alter an outcome. The person lost. The person was beat by the other GM in a legit way and with respect between two people working hard to win with strategy.

Punt block determining a win is not strategy.


Re: Special Teams Matter

By Infinity on Trial
10/02/2019 6:59 pm
TarquinTheDark wrote:
Smirt211 wrote:
Here's the problem with the punt blocking. One game plan can be beating another game plan, clear cut and you have no right of winning but you do because you disrupt the code with a punt block return for a TD or two. You could be rushing 30 times for 21 yards and be throwing for 100 yards and 3 picks in a game....the punt block obtains an immediate score when you could not move the ball and disrupts the sim engine.

Non-punter at the position I say BLOCK AWAY! Go for it! Or someone with a really poor punt timing on their punter. Stand out stuff. Ok, you put effort in and reaped benefits. But two GMs going all-out in deep playoff games the punt block should never ever come into play.


What I read you saying is that ST is boring, it is supposed to be boring, it is not part of your game plan, and shouldn't be part of anyone else's. It should be safe to ignore it. Maybe that's just my interpretation.

I build teams with characteristics that happen to improve ST play. I tend to have a lot of players available that are good at ST. So, it is part of my game plan. I'm not giving away any part of the game.


There is no opponent in the history of this game I respect or fear more than smirt.

I love special teams, and I love that attention to it will set you apart from 90% of opponents. The ability to generate a block or two per game is something else.